Spectacle and Substance: Wicked's Warning

This episode is dedicated to theatre, television and voiceover actor Kimberly Hébert Gregory (1972-2025). Kevin highlights the cultural impact of the Broadway musical Wicked; shares his memories of moving to NYC in the early '90s and seeing theatre in those early years; he tells a story about auditioning for Rent; gives a synopsis of Wicked Act One and offers commentary; explores one of the producers of Wicked's heavy handed handling of an actress and draws comparisons to the silencing of capital A Animals in Wicked to the rise of authoritarianism around the world. 

Ben Platt singing "The Wizard and I" for MCC Miscast '23 

Hannah Einbinder's 2025 HRC acceptance speech

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Transcript

Hello and welcome to episode one of Dark Mondays with Kevin Boseman. I’m Kevin Boseman and I’m so thrilled to share this little project I’ve been working on. Conceived, written and produced by me, Dark Mondays is a weekly podcast about theatre, mostly musical theatre. One week, I might see some theatre and come back here to give you my review. Another week, I’ll sit down for an intimate conversation with a theatre insider. I had this incredibly inspiring, soulful conversation with an actor related to the show we’re highlighting, the musical we’re highlighting this week, and I can’t wait to share that with you in a couple of weeks. Now other weeks, I’ll choose a show and explore its plot and character, its actors and creators, and not just artistically but through a social, cultural and political lens. I’ll also share my life and my career, my thirty-year career, both onstage and on the creative side. Basically, I’m pulling back the curtain on the stories, the songs, and yes even the backstage drama that makes theatre matter. I want us to go beyond just the spectacle and create a space for thoughtful conversations about where these stories meet real life and what they tell us about who we are.

But before we dive in, while preparing for this episode, the theatre community suffered a loss, and I must take a moment to honor the brilliance and the beauty and the life of Kimberly Hébert Gregory. I dedicate this episode to her. I had the honor of working with Kimberly about twenty years ago on the Gazelle Tour of The Lion King. I also met her family, her then husband, actor Chester Gregory who broke the news of her transition on his Instagram, and their young son, now a young man. Kimberly was not just an extraordinarily talented actress and singer; she was an extraordinary person. You know the kind of person who never met a stranger? That was Kimberly. She was the kind of person and artist who used her art and her scholarship – she loved Shakespeare – as a tool for community building and edification. Kimberly was warm and funny and grounded and soulful. Kimberly was love. That’s how I’ve been describing her these past few weeks. To be in her presence was to be loved. She will be missed by the theatre community, by the film and television community, and I know most deeply by her family and friends. My deepest condolences go out to them, to Chester, and especially to her beautiful son. Rest in peace, Kimberly. 

On this episode of Dark Mondays, we’re diving into one of Broadway’s most transformative musicals — Wicked, the show that turned the misunderstood girl from Oz into a Broadway legend. We’ll look at how it redefined what it means to be “wicked” — onstage, in culture, and in ourselves. Because Wicked isn’t just a show about two witches; it’s about perception, power, and what happens when a woman, or any marginalized person for that matter, refuses to be silenced. No, Wicked isn’t just a musical. It’s a mirror. It’s a spell. It’s a story about what happens when you stop apologizing for who you are, and you start to fly.

Following in the footsteps of shows like Les Misérables, The Phantom of the Opera, and Cats, Wicked gave the mega-musical a distinctly American, pop-infused update with songs like Defying Gravity, an aspirational anthem sung in school choirs, in voice lessons, and on talent shows all over the world. And let’s be honest. Who hasn’t, at some point, wanted the chance to fly?

Currently in its twenty-second year on Broadway, Wicked opened on October 30, 2003, at the Gershwin Theatre, making it one of the longest-running musicals in Broadway history. And with near capacity seating weekly, it consistently ranks as one of the top grossing Broadway shows, so it shows no signs of slowing down any time soon. 

It truly required a powerhouse team of creatives to take a story like Wicked off the page and onto the stage. You had the Stephen Schwartz on music and lyrics, with Winnie Holzman on the book; directed by Joe Mantello and choreographed by Wayne Cilento, the show was nominated for ten Tony Awards, including Best Musical, Best Book, Best Orchestration, Best Original Score, Best Choreography, Best Costume Design, Best Lighting Design, Best Scenic Design and Best Actress for both of its leading ladies, Kristin Chenoweth who played Glinda, or Galinda – toss, toss – and Idina Menzel who played Elphaba. The show took home three of those awards: Best Scenic Design, Best Costume Design, and Best Actress for Idina Menzel, a performance so iconic that 20 years later, she’s still leaving concerts audiences in tears with her heartfelt interpretation of “For Good.” I saw Idina in concert when she was touring with Josh Groban. My friend Pete was Josh’s percussionist for a few years, and he’d get me tickets when they came to play the Garden. I live in New York City. And there was definitely some Wicked in Idina’s set. There was some “For Good,” and some “Defying Gravity,” and songs from her album, and that song from Frozen. I saw Eden Espinosa, another famous Elphaba, in the green room once after one of those Josh Groban, Idina Menzel concerts. And I didn’t say hi because I sometimes get nervous around famous people. And unfortunately, I hadn’t seen her in a show. I really only knew her from bootlegged YouTube clips of her Elphaba.  And I felt like it would’ve been kinda weird to go up and be like, “I’ve seen you on YouTube in Wicked and you, you’re amazing.” So, I just opted to not do that because I think it would’ve felt kinda awkward.  So, shout out to Eden Espinosa. I hope wherever she is, wherever you are, Eden, that you are thriving, that you are moisturized and hydrated. And I hope to see you onstage soon. And I don’t know if maybe Idina had her own green room because I was definitely in Josh’s green room to meet my friend Pete and also meet Josh, and I didn’t see uh Idina in there. And I assumed, though I could be wrong, that Eden Espinosa knew both Josh Groban and Idina Menzel. And of course, maybe Idina Menzel had not come into the green room yet. I actually didn’t stay there very long because there were quite a lot of people and um… You know, it was nice to be in the green room. But once you’ve had that moment, you’ve had it, and it’s time to go. And by the way, I actually didn’t see uh… Idina’s Elphaba either. I did see her in the original cast of Rent, though. 

I moved to New York City in the early nineties, after college. And I feel like Rent was the musical of that time in New York City, especially the,the musical of young people, just like uh… Wicked became the musical of young folks in the early two-thousands. So… there were so many opportunities to see Rent because… does anyone remember you could walk up to the box office and buy like… I wanna say like $10 standing room tickets? Or even $10 dollar tickets, like rush tickets, very last minute and be on like the first row. So, I saw Rent so many times. I auditioned for Rent. I think Rent was probably one of my first big musical theatre auditions when I first got to the city. And I remember it being one of those big open calls, what I think of as like a cattle call. Like a traditional cattle call. And it was at Symphony Space. And I remember it was January and it was freezing cold. I stood outside for probably about two hours just to get into the building. And finally got into the building, and still shivering, filling out forms. They put us in groups and then we one by one went into a room. There were like several rooms… but you would go into a room with like a casting agent. And you just sang acapella. And I sang Stevie Wonder, “I Just Called To Say I Love You.” And I got a callback. And they gave me music, and this was, the callback was a much more traditional audition. And they gave me Collins. And… which was surprising. I feel like I’ve often called back for roles I don’t necessarily see myself in, or I get called in for things I don’t see myself in. But you know, you just trust the casting agent and uh just go and do the thing. But I got “I’ll Cover You,” the reprise, and also the… “Will I” solo. And I think I did well. But I did not get a callback. At the time, I was actually still dancing for the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater, I think I was very early in my time with Alvin Ailey. But occasionally, I would just go to an audition, like call in sick. And I’d go to an audition for a show I was interested in being in. And you know, I was… Rent was, it really was that show back in the day. So, people were willing to stand outside in January, in the cold, in the rain to get into the room, and to also call in sick from your wonderful dance company job that you have and audition. And I… I was just dropping into auditions at that time just to see what would happen, you know. And I auditioned for Rent one other time. I went to the… a dance call with uh Marliss Yearby, the choreographer. And… that went well, but didn’t book it. Didn’t book the show. 

And that little sidebar was my Rent audition experience. Let me know if you have any crazy standing outside, for an audition, in the elements stories. Leave it in the comments. 

Here’s a fun fact: I’ve seen Wicked twice, but never on Broadway. More on that later.

Based on Gregory Maguire’s 1995 novel Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West, this “what if story” proffers an origin for the witches of Oz. The story poses an age-old question. Are people born wicked, or do they have wickedness thrust upon them? Hmm. Maguire drew inspiration for his characters from the L. Frank Baum book The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, published in 1900, which of course then inspired the classic 1939 film The Wizard of Oz, which happens to be one of my all-time favorite movies. I grew up watching it every year when it came on TV, back before there was streaming, back when you had to wait for things to come on. I’ve also read both Baum and Maguire. I generally love all things from the Oz Universe. And you know that means The Wiz. I mean, every Oz story, in its own way, is really just reminding us to ease on down the road.

Themes like friendship and social isolation, combined with Wicked’s pop score appealed to adolescent audiences, making it the musical for an entire generation of young theatergoers.

With other themes like prejudice, inequality, and the abuse of power by powerful leaders, Wicked feels almost crafted from the current political climate. Why is Elphaba so wicked, you ask? Spoiler alert, under the calculated manipulation of the con artist in the emerald throne room, Oz is becoming an authoritarian state before Elphaba’s green-tinted eyes. At least, that’s how it all started.

But let’s go back to where it actually all started. The top of the show. Alright people, places! 

Wicked picks up where The Wizard of Oz left off, after Dorothy kills the Wicked Witch of the West. Glinda the Good Witch rides in on her iconic bubble to announce to the citizens of Oz that the Wicked Witch of the West is dead — and then, like any good prequel, we flash back to how it all began when they were young.

We flash all the way back to before Elphaba was born and discover her mother drinking a mysterious green elixir given to her by a mystery man whom we can assume is her lover, not Elphaba’s father. And Elphaba is born soon after and she is, as the lyric goes, unnaturally green.  

Then we see older Elphaba, green-skinned and misunderstood, with her younger sister Nessarose who’s in a wheelchair as they arrive at Shiz University where their father, the Governor of Munchkinland, has sent them to study. 

The Headmistress Madame Morrible witnesses Elphaba use her powers and invites her to study sorcery under her. Elphaba realizes she might have a gift, and we get her I Want Song, “The Wizard and I.” She wants to meet the great and powerful Wizard who she thinks can change her life and her skin.

Meanwhile, another student, Galinda, who later becomes just Glinda, who later becomes Glinda the Good Witch is perplexed that Madam Morrible clearly doesn’t think she’s special. And she isn’t. She’s wealthy and conventionally attractive, and we can assume in her world she’s been treated special because of that. In our world, we treat people special because of that. To top it off, she was supposed to have a private suite, but she and Elphaba get paired as roommates, and they both declare mutual loathing in the hilarious “What Is This Feeling?”

So, there are talking animals at Shiz U, and throughout Oz. Elphaba befriends one of her professors, Dr. Dillamond, a talking goat, who warns that Animals across Oz are losing their voices. 

Then Fiyero arrives – late – I think he’s late. And he’s carefree, he’s handsome, he’s been kicked out of schools and he sings his introduction “Dancing Through Life” and of course, the entire campus gets caught up in his whirlwind and we get some of Wayne Cilento’s Tony nominated choreo. Fiyero invites Galinda to the dance. Then Galinda pawns off this Munchkin boy Boq who has been flirting with her, onto Nessarose. Now the Munchkins in The Wizard of Oz were actual little people. Wicked doesn’t cast like that. But Boq is traditionally shorter than Fiyero. In the casting breakdowns I’ve seen, ’cause I have looked at auditioning for either Boq or Fiyero, height requirements are listed for both of those characters. And you know, height and size are historically a storytelling trope used…is trope the right word? Trope. I think it is. Or storytelling tool to signal someone’s importance, or attractiveness, or power, or uh propensity to heroism. And then we have Nessarose who is in a wheelchair, so we’re getting some othering from this able bodied, conventionally attractive, popular, wealthy, blond girl.

Now Nessarose is absolutely overjoyed about being asked out by Boq and she tells Elphaba that Galinda made it happen. And Elphaba appears moved by that and goes to find Galinda… who is somewhere being messy with her messy friends being encouraged to give an ugly hat to Elphaba to wear to the dance, which she does. And this is where Elphaba acquires the iconic black, pointy hat that we associate with witches. According to history.com, apparently that fashion style was popular in the mid-1600s among mostly Quaker women. And then somehow in the 1700s, that style of hat became linked to stereotypes of witches and the devil. And I very recently heard, and I cannot remember where… that the witch trials were really about men not wanting women to have ownership of land. Has anyone else heard that? And I’m sure I heard it recently because it was recently Halloween. 

Anyway, Madam Morrible stops by the dance to give Galinda a wand and tells her Elphaba has convinced her to train her, against her better judgement. Then Elphaba shows up and everybody clears the floor. She does an awkward dance in silence while they watch and Galinda joins in because she feels guilty, which then makes everyone else join in. 

Now back in the dorm room, Galinda tells Elphaba she’s going marry Fiyero and insists on giving Elphaba a makeover and she sings one of her most popular songs in the show, “Popular.” 

Dr. Dillamond gets arrested and the authorities tell the students that animals will be caged in the future to keep them from speaking. They actually show a lion cub in a cage. And then Fiyero helps Elphaba free the cub… and oops, love triangle… there’s romantic tension between them. 

So, Madame Morrible tells Elphaba the Wizard wants to meet her. Galinda comes to see her off, but really just complains the entire time about Fiyero being distant since the Dr. Dillamond, lion cub incident. Then Fiyero shows up and gives Elphaba flowers and Galinda senses something is going on maybe between Elphaba and Fiyero, and announces she’s changing her name to Glinda to be in solidarity with Dr. Dillamond who couldn’t say “Ga-linda.” Elphaba ends up bringing Glinda with her to the Emerald City because she feels sorry for her. And maybe she’s feeling guilty about Fiyero. 

The stage transforms and we’re in Emeral City, in a number called “One Short Day.” And I love having The Wizard of Oz and The Wiz to reference because the arrival in Emerald City is always one of the best moments in the Oz Universe. It’s always gonna be a big musical number. In The Wizard of Oz, it was “The Merry Old Land Of Oz.” In The Wiz it was “So You Want To See The Wizard” and of course in The Wiz movie there’s the “Emerald City Sequence” which is a whole fashion show and incredible choreography. And in Wicked it’s “One Short Day.” And each one of them, they’re all fabulous in the way that’s most appropriate for the world each of those shows inhabits. 

So, Elphaba realizes no one is staring at her, that she’s right where she belongs. Which is such a wonderful moment to witness because we know what’s gonna happen to her, very shortly. But it’s also like, a weird kind of storytelling moment… because her father is the Governor of Munchkinland. And we can assume that the Emeral City is the capital of Oz. Her father had never been to Emerald City, had never taken the family to Emerald City? Like that’s just one of those weird, kind of storytelling things that I find funny. 

But anyway she… she… she… realizes that this is where she belongs. But things quickly turn dark. The Wizard tricks Elphaba into using her magic to create flying monkeys, to create spies for his regime. He basically gets her to read from a book called the Grimmerie. And Elphaba realizes that he couldn’t read from the Grimmerie, that Madame Morrible couldn’t read from the Grimmerie. And really that the Wizard is a charlatan, that he’s the one spreading anti-Animal propaganda. And she refuses to serve him. She runs away. Glinda chases after her, tells her she’s making a mistake. Madame Morrible brands her a “wicked witch,” and in the show’s iconic Act One finale, “Defying Gravity,” Elphaba literally rises above it all vowing to fight injustice, no matter the cost.

And blackout. The curtain comes in, the audience applauds like crazy, we’re in our Intermission. We go to the restroom. We get a cocktail. We turn our phones back on and check our Instagram and follow @darkmondayspod. Seriously, if you haven’t followed, go follow @darkmondayspod on Instagram, and you can follow me @kevinboseman. 

Adapting existing IP into original Broadway stories was nothing new. But the pop cultural success of Wicked showed that even with familiar source material, Broadway could create fresh, subversive reinterpretations that felt new – especially with the right creative team. And of course, every hit show also has producers – often pulling the strings backstage. 

Wicked’s producers include Marc Platt, Jon Platt, David Stone, and Universal Stage Productions, with The Araca Group. I almost didn’t do much research on the producers, but then something told me to follow the money, there’s always drama where there’s money. And some interesting, pulling the strings backstage stuff came up about one of the producers, not directly connected to Wicked, but I’m gonna tie those strings together. According to NBC Universal, Marc Platt optioned Gregory Maguire’s novel to produce the musical. If Marc Platt’s name sounds familiar it’s because he’s a multi award-winning film, television and theatre producer. He’s also the father of actor Ben Platt who won Best Actor in a Musical for playing Evan Hansen in Dear Evan Hansen. And one of his other five children, Jonah Platt, had a run as Fiyero in the Broadway company of Wicked about a decade ago. 

Do you all remember the live action Snow White film that came out earlier this year? Rachel Zegler played Snow White and Gal Gadot was the Evil Queen, Marc Platt produced that. And… I don’t know the numbers, but I don’t think it did very well at the box office. It actually seemed doomed from the beginning. When casting was announced, Rachel Zegler who is half Polish American, half Colombian American was criticized for not having skin as “white as snow.” This was all happening on social media. Then in an interview with Extra TV, Rachel made comments about the original 1939 animation of Snow White, which was the same year as The Wizard of Oz. She commented on Snow White’s “big focus on her love story with a guy who literally stalks her. Weird! WEIRD!” And she hinted that this remake of Snow White was not a love story, but an inner journey for Snow to find herself. And those comments didn’t go over well with the traditional family folks, with the wife in the home folks, especially with the trad wife trend that’s in the zeitgeist. After the 2024 US Presidential election, Rachel criticized Trump and his supporters. In an Instagram story, she wrote, “I find myself speechless in the midst of this. Another four years of hatred, leaning towards a world I do not want to live in.” And she added, “a deep, deep sickness in this country that is shown in the sheer amount of people who showed up for this man and threatens our democracy.” More backlash from the right on social media. Calls to boycott the "woke" Snow White. Rachel issued an apology for her comments. Hmmm. Then, Rachel made comments in support of Palestine. She tweeted on August 12th, 2024, and the tweet is still up, “and always remember, free Palestine.” And by the way, this is all sourced from a few online articles, from hollywoodreporter.com, theguardian.com, and bbc.com. And you know them producers wanted her to be quite and just promote their film. You know they wanted that apology to smooth things over. And what did Marc Platt do? He hopped on a plane and flew across country to speak with her. Now mind you, her co-star, Gal Gadot is Israeli and served two years in the Israel Defense Force in her early twenties. IDF. All Israeli citizens are mandated to serve in IDF. And Gal Gadot, herself, had made comments in support of Israel’s actions in Gaza. But, allegedly, she faced no repercussions from Disney or Marc Platt – that have been publicly documented. Allegedly. Now, the Platt family are Jewish American. In fact, during the height of the pro-Palestinian protests on college campuses, Marc Platt’s wife, Julie Platt was made interim chair of the board of trustees at University of Pennsylvania. She was already on the board, but they appointed her chair, or interim chair, when things got really hot on college campuses. The entire Platt family, with the exception of Ben, went to UPenn. Ben went to Columbia. Julie Platt is also an Israeli Presidential Medal of Honor Recipient. 

So, Jonah Platt, he's the one who played Fiyero, inserted himself into the story with a response to @brynnd13 on Instagram who criticized Marc Platt for flying to NYC to reprimand Rachel Zegler. They called it creepy and said it was uncalled for, and said people have the right to free speech, closing their quote with “Shame on your father.” And Jonah Platt responded. Now he deleted his response later, but nothing is ever really deleted from the internet. He said: 

You really want to do this? Yeah, my dad, the producer of enormous piece of Disney IP with hundreds of millions of dollars on the line, had to leave his family to fly across the country to reprimand his 20 year old employee for dragging her personal politics into the middle of promoting the movie for which she signed a multi-million dollar contract to get paid and do publicity for. This is called adult responsibility and accountability. And her actions clearly hurt the film's box office. Free speech does not mean you're allowed to say whatever you want in your private employment without repercussions. Tens of thousands of people worked on that film and she hijacked the conversation for her own immature desires at the risk of all the colleagues and crew and blue collar workers who depend on that movie to be successful. Narcissism is not something to be coddled or encouraged. 

That response is interesting to me, this kind of debate over free speech, and who gets to have it and when. And here’s what strikes me: Wicked is literally a show where capital A Animals lose their voices, where they are silenced and caged in the hopes of destroying their ability to speak, where speaking out becomes dangerous. It all mirrors what is going on in the United States of America and in many other countries today. Now, Ben Platt broke from the family when he reposted screenshots of actress and activist Hannah Einbinder who received the 2024* Human Rights Campaign Visibility Award for expanding LGBTQ+ representation on and off-screen. That’s a long title! Einbinder, who is Jewish American, spoke out harshly against what she calls the “Israeli government’s massacre of well over 65,000 Palestinian’s in Gaza… funded by our American tax dollars,” and she went on to call for a ceasefire and a liberated Palestine. She also invoked free speech, calling out the detainment and imminent deportation of Syrian born graduate student Mahmoud Khalil who led pro-Palestinian protests on the campus of Columbia University. 

And... I know… we just getting to know each other, we’re on a first date, so I think it's important, crucial as we embark on this relationship that I let you know I'm anti-authoritarian all day long. I'm all about free speech, especially when people are speaking out against things like racism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, anti-immigration, banning books and defunding education and... you get where I'm going. Yes, Rachel Zegler, free Palestine! What is it, 77 years Gaza has been occupied, and Palestinian people have lived with a knee on their neck. And being born in America and knowing how the American government is supporting what is happening in Palestine, it makes me wanna scream. Oz had a con artist in the emerald throne room implementing authoritarian rule. America has a con artist in the Oval Office pushing authoritarian rule. Israel has a leader pushing authoritarian rule. How do we all escape authoritarian rule?

There’s a great clip on YouTube of Ben Platt singing “The Wizard And I” for Miscast, by the way. I’ll leave a link in the show notes. There’s also a link to Hannah Einbinder’s Human Rights Campaign speech in the show notes. 

Wicked the musical continues to smash the Broadway box office. It’s also one of the most successful touring productions in Broadway history, bringing Broadway-caliber spectacle to audiences across America. And international productions have mounted in places like the UK, Germany, Japan, and Australia, so Wicked has a global footprint. I saw a tweet last year as the movie was coming out, basically saying no one is interested in seeing this film. And I was like, buddy you have no idea.

As I mentioned, I’ve seen Wicked twice, but I haven’t seen on Broadway. Can you guess where? Hint: it was not in the US. Leave your answers in the comments and come back next week to find out where I saw it and who played the witches because, theatre lovers, that’s the show, the end of our Act One deep dive into Wicked. And I really hope you enjoyed it. 

Dark Mondays with Kevin Boseman was conceived, written and produced by me and can currently be found on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and iHeartRadio. Please subscribe to Dark Mondays and give the show a five-star review, leave a comment, and turn on notifications so you’re notified as soon as I drop new episodes. With the second installment of the film adaptation, Wicked: For Good, flying into theatres just a few days from now on November 20th – I already have my ticket – there’s no better time to go deeper. On episode two, I’m talking about a controversy from the film that lit up social media faster than a flying monkey. And I’ll be belting out one of my favorite songs from the show. And before I let you go, please share the podcast, share the socials. That’s @darkmondayspod on both Instagram and TikTok. And you can follow me on Instagram @kevinboseman, on TikTok @kevin_boseman. Have a wonderful week. See some theatre. And I’ll see you back here next week.

CORRECTIONS

* Hannah Einbinder received the 2025 Human Rights Campaign Visibility Award for expanding LGBTQ+ representation on and off-screen.